A few days ago I received this lovely comment on my pregnancy announcement post:
Wow, maybe you should stop being such a prude, i am glad you stop following most bloggers who post all those things that annoy you, so what if you have to go on bedrest for 6 months, i am 24 and i am going through early menopause while i was trying to conceive and guess what now i cant get pregnant, i least you can!!!, you should thank your lucky stars you have that ability, i used to follow you, but who wants to follow an ungrateful person such as yourself, i truly hope your pregnancy goes well, but when other people try to support you then you make fun of them, it makes me wonder. Get Over yourself!!!
Even though I replied to the lovely “Momoneymoproblems” in the comments thread, her AWESOME showing of both insensitivity and ignorance compelled me to dedicate a whole post to her, and address some issues regarding this space while I was at it.
To save you the clickover, here is my reply to MMMP:
Yay my first hateful comment!
Though I’m truly sorry for what you’re going through, don’t belittle what I have been through. The “at least I can get pregnant” sentiment ended when I lost my son. Repeat pregnancy loss is devastating and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. Late term loss is beyond devastating. I wouldn’t wish that on freaking hitler. And I’m Jewish so that’s saying something.
I am nothing but grateful to everyone who supports me. But just like you feel the need to trash me- and on my own blog to boot! – I have every right to let out a little bitter when I am scared out of my mind. It’s how I deal. If you don’t want to follow me, don’t. I gave sufficient warning when I started this space that I was throwing etiquette out the window here.
I hope against all hope that you find a place to let out some of your pent out anger. Maybe start your own blog?
In the meantime, I truly wish you the best.
But if you DARE belittle the loss of my Nadav again I will have no choice but to unceremoniously delete your comment and wish you ill. Sorry- but that’s my son. He was here and he was loved. But for now I only wish you the best, truly. Also maybe some prozac?
Keep it classy!
Oh dear readers, where do I start? Shall I address the Pain Olympics that are such a huge part of why I ran away from the ALI blogoverse? Shall I talk about the ignorance regarding my specific situation? Shall I address the complete belittlement of my losses?
Actually – I first want to clarify. I actually wasn’t upset by this comment. This poor woman’s comment on that post was so misguided and misinformed it was laughable. I was so amused I even took to Twitter to encourage people to come in and keep flaming me. No takers, surprisingly. So why am I addressing it so publicly? Because I don’t address my history in this space, and it makes me think that some people don’t have a context. So yeah – I don’t want my “About” page to be all about my lady parts. But I guess that my history should be noted. And this sort of ignorance should be addressed.
One year ago I lost my son at 22 weeks. I. LOST. MY. SON. He was alive. I felt him moving inside me. He was loved. Losing him was by far the hardest thing I have ever gone through and like I said in my reply to MMMP, I wouldn’t wish that experience on the most awful person in the world. Being pregnant after that kind of loss is TERRIFYING. Being pregnant after that kind of loss while being stuck in a bed for 6 months with PTSD is both terrifying and SUCKS MONKEY BALLS.
Before losing Nadav, I had had 3 first-trimester losses. In between I also had a dose of infertility, with problems conceiving my current (5th) pregnancy, and having one of my tubes removed after my 3rd pregnancy.
Basically, in short, I have suffered quite a few forms of pregnancy loss, and a little of your “standard infertility” to boot. And yes, all of that sucks. But can I be honest?
None of that even holds a candle to losing my Nadav. Nothing has ever hurt that much and I hope to the Flying Spaghetti Monster that I will never have to suffer that kind of pain again. I lost a child. That. Fucking. Sucks. To say the least.
Anyone who belittles that loss, or the hardcore PTSD that comes as a result of it can suck it. Seriously. If one more person dares to come on my territory and say the words “at least you can get pregnant” I will lose. My. Shit.
When I was sitting in my living room after losing him, keening with grief, contemplating hurting myself, barely holding myself together, I doubt you would have come to me and said “well – at least you can get pregnant”.
When I was up all night a few days back, freaking the fuck out, crying again over my son and at the same time being scared out of my wits over my current pregnancy with B5 – my PTSD in full effect – I doubt you would have come to me and said “well – at least you can get pregnant.”
MMMP – I dare you – heck – I fucking double dare you to get pregnant, feel your baby move, get to know him/her, love him/her completely, and then lose the baby and live with the aftermath. Put that up against infertility and you tell me which is harder since you’re so experienced with these things.
I don’t wish what I’ve been through on anybody. I definitely don’t wish it on you. But if you’re so eager to compare our pain – please, by all means, walk a mile in my shoes.
When I moved to this space I warned my old readers that I would not take “ALI Etiquette” here with me. I have every right to rant, be bitter, and criticize. This is my space, if you don’t like it, walk away. Don’t let the internet door hit you on the way out.
I fucking hate pregnancy memes. I’ve written about that a couple of times on my old blog. I don’t dislike or even judge the people who write them. I just think the memes themselves are annoying and completely unoriginal. If somebody wants to compare their baby to fruit they have every right to. If that’s what they want to use to document their pregnancy they can feel free. And I will feel free to skip those posts and mock them for it. Not the writers of the posts, but the posts themselves. Because I think they’re stupid.
And if somebody wants to mock me back, write a thoughtful rebuttal (always welcome!), or stop reading me because I am outspoken about my opinions, so be it.
But don’t you ever EVER attempt to quantify my pain. Just because I don’t talk about it here every day doesn’t mean I don’t spend every. Waking. Moment. Feeling it.
So yeah – MMMP – feel free to go fuck yourself.
The same goes for anyone else who dares question the pain I have gone through, the difficulty I am currently going through, or anyone who dares to belittle the memory of my son.
Take a flying fuck. Eat me. Fuck you. Or as MMMP so ignorantly put it: Get over yourself.
Like So 
Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry. I can’t believe someone would write such a nasty thing. I sure hope that’s not one of my followers, because it really sickens me. You have been through so much, like I stated in my post, and I’m so sorry you had to deal with someone ignorant like that.
Thinking of you..
Oh honey, please please don’t feel bad. It gave me a chance to go on a rant. I love those. No worries!
That’s good 🙂 Hugs xoxo
Good on you, Mo. Honestly, there is nothing I freaking hate more than the pain Olympics, I mean who gives a shit about more or less, pain is pain. I came across you from the LFCA by mistaking you for another Mo but I hung around because I like how you tell it like it is, warts and all. I like your new blog because I too feel constrained by the IF conventions (but have not been brave like you to release myself from the shackles). Keep telling it like it is, I will be reading and cheering you on.
You’re awesome and I love you. That’s all.
I love you too!
(Clapping wildly)
Well said sista! But you should not have to defend yourself in your own space.
Thanks hon! But I honestly don’t mind. No one likes a good ranty post better than me. I kind of enjoyed getting it off my chest.
An “Amen!” just feels very right, right about now. Amen!
It bothers me you even had to waste your time responding to such bile. You shouldn’t have to justify any of your thoughts, feelings or actions on YOUR OWN BLOG. Nor should you have to relive a history that is is heartbreaking and inspiring to who you are IF you don’t desire to.
It’s sad. Because if you’ve had a loss – be it early, late or even the inability to experience a loss – it changes you. And we sometimes lose the ability to empathize with other. Instead it becomes a fucked up competition of who has endured more and what. That’s my rant! 🙂
As one bedrested woman to another — I hope you are prepared with books, movies and food!! It’s a long haul – and shit I bet you may even complain about it, because you are human!!– but I send you good vibes and energy to begin the process. I wish I could say being on bedrest eases the worry and anxiety but it doesnt!! Although watching the entire catalog of HBO and eating copious amounts of cheese has made it bearable. Good luck girl – write whatever the hell you NEED to.
Hear, hear. I’m glad you were able to take it with a grain of salt because for every one person that leaves a hateful comment, you’ve got 100 here to cheer you on.
I am SO sorry you received an ill-advised comment like that. As someone who has been around the block with failed infertility treatments for over two years and spent tens of thousands of dollars on trying to have a baby. – and as someone who has suffered a first trimester loss and a late second trimester preterm labor, I can safely say NOTHING has been even close to as horrible as having to push three babies out into this world knowing they have no chance for survival. Knowing I’m lucky that two of those babies lived for even a few minutes outside my body. Knowing that any of those hard fought breaths and wiggles of hands and feet could very well be their last minute on earth. I have tried to come up with something worse than that that could happen to me (baby related or not) and in my opinion there is NOTHING worse. I do not support the pain Olympics also. Everyone has their own demons and pain and I will likely never completely understand how some people feel, but I can tell you, for me, my experience losing my triplets was the worst thing that has and ever will occur to me. I can say that with confidence. I pray that no one has to experience that ever again.
Stay strong!
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Much love to you!
I never understand why people take the time to go out of their way to write hurtful things on other people’s blogs. Do they not have anything better to do with their time? I am a new follower so I appreciated the recap of all you’ve gone through, and just wanted to say I’m sorry for all the heartache you’ve had to endure. I hope MMMP got the point and will think twice next time before writing another comment like that.
Say it sister!! Fuck ’em… It’s a blog, if you don’t like it don’t read it. Rant away because you are the real deal mo…
Between this post, Jess’s post and now Mel’s post reminding of the fact that there use to be pain points (which I absolutely love!), I’m imagining that many a troll is currently crawling back under their respective bridge.
I’ll say it before and I’ll say it again: people who play pain olympics are clearly screaming for help. Something is massively wrong and they feel unrecognized for their pain. MMMP is clearly one of these people. She lashed out at you in a moment of pain, never taking a second to truly comprehend exactly what she was saying. Stupidity comes in so many forms.
Speak your mind. If people are offended, they’ll go elsewhere. But I too am tried of the BS and the comparisons. To the women that chose to lash out, take a moment to think about the hate you’re spreading. That any children you have will be swimming in that hate. Then think long and hard about whether it’s a good idea to start a family. Because hate is so toxic and no child deserves to live in that type of environment.
Hear hear my friend!
I know MMMP was coming from a place of pain in that comment, but c’mon girl, you’ve got to think twice before letting your pain affect others. We’re all hurting around here. I think people think because you’re pregnant again, or perhaps because you’re not on here publicly keening over Nadav, that the pain has lessened or disappeared in some way. It’s such an unimaginable hurt that people can’t wrap their brains around it unless they’ve been there before.
I’m glad you got ranty on her because, frankly, she deserved it. People like that do this community no good.
I never understood why people wanted to hate on any particular blog. Just click away and move on with your life. I don’t think any blogger is offended by thoughtful discussion, but pure trolling is beyond me. Good on ya for putting this commenter in her place. I hope she is able to get the necessary support for her particular situation, and someday she is able to understand that her comment was hurtful.
Actually having a bit of a cry reading your story. I thought my infertility story was shit but doesn’t hold a candle to your pregnancy loss. Having said that I love the way you write. I look forward to reading more. I am on twitter too, how can I find you? Jo
Aww thanks Jo! My twitter handle is @mommyodyssey
I hear you on so many levels. I, too, have had anonymous trolls swarm in and leave me hateful commets on my blog (which is opemly about the loss of my twins, infertility struggles before and after, my grief and PTSD, and this new pregnancy and the fear that goes with it). It just kills me. I was accused right after Newtown of having no idea what PTSD is, because THOSE kids and parents are the ones with PTSD. So, yeah, fuck my official medical diagnosis then, I guess, and that darned tome of psychological codes my trained therapist used to diagnose me (and fuck the flashbacks and everythig else that comes with a susbsequent pregnancy). I delete comments like that; I don’t have the balls to leave them there for my family, my husband’s family, our friends and supporters to read. I didn’t start my blog to belong to ALI – at the time, I’d suffered through almost 4 years without knowing anything about the ALI community, and really, I could give a shit about it still. I find women I relate to, and have found support for myself and been able to offer support. I didn’t even know there was a term called Pain Olympics until I read a post yesterday, and all it screams to me is how fucking awful and hateful women can be to one another, just like in school growing up. Even as adults, there are still the mean girls. Jesus, and THOSE women, those hateful women, are parenting or want to parent children?! God help us all. I know that IF I am ever blessed with children who do not die (this current baby included), I will hope they never come across such mean, hateful people…and I hope I raise them better.
Hear hear my friend!
Also, I don’t know about you, Mo, but I’m finding trying to hold my grief for my babies (lost 18 months ago this week) and the feelings of fear/hope/bits of joy I feel in this subsequent pregnancy to be incredibly confusing, difficult and stressful. I know of one fellow IF babyloss mama who made a conscious decision – and wrote about it – to essentially forget her IF and grief once her rainbow was born, as if they had never happened. I don’t have that ability and can’t imagine doing it. Like your Nadav, my babies were very loved, wanted, fought for and devastatingly lost, and I feel it’s my job as a mother to make sure they’re not forgotten, by me or anyone close to us.
So true. I’m struggling with that as well
Of course you have every right to every feeling that you have about what you went through with Nadav, your overall history, and how both affect the way you need to cope through your current pregnancy. And of course you have the right to let all of this affect how you view other blogs/bloggers that write very differently about their pregnancies after loss/infertility. I’ll never understand why people can’t just own their own spaces and not have to project their pain onto others in THEIR spaces, trying to belittle another’s journey, or any part of it. This is an amazing response to that, and I hope you found writing it super cathartic. Because that’s what our blogs are for – mmmp clearly hasn’t grasped that yet. I hope she never has to find out firsthand how wrong her ideas about “at least being able to get pregnant” really are.
Just reading that comment made me sick to my stomach I cannot believe those horrible words. I’m so sorry.
Mo, love your bluntness 🙂 — you really tell it like it is. 😉 I’m so sorry you had to deal with that troll. S/he obviously did not know your full history. At least, one can only hope, because it’s bad enough they wrote what they did at all; to do so in full knowledge of what you’ve been through is clearly the sign of a warped personality. :p I too have always said I would never wish the pain of pregnancy loss on my worst enemy.
(Totally off topic, I wanted to thank you & Cristy for a great interview on the Bitter Infertiles podcast this weekend. Thank you for having us on, for your willingness to listen and learn, and for your very kind words!)
I’ll be honest. You’re the ONLY infertility blogger I read (I found your old blog while googling TWW “symptoms”, and your post on that cracked me up so much I stuck around), and I think there are a couple reasons for that:
– If I read numerous blogs I’d get incredibly sick of all the things you talk about when you talk about wanting to leave that community behind, including the “pain Olympics” (as a fat acceptance advocate and official Fat Lady, I know all about those sorts of Olympics and oh boy are they dumb).
– If I read numerous blogs, when those people possibly eventually got pregnant, I am afraid that I’d feel worse about my own infertility even while being happy for them, and I don’t want that.
I admit it. My very first thought when reading your pregnancy announcement was “oh how great for her!” and it was followed pretty much immediately by the sound of a sad trombone in my own brain and little “oh, another person is pregnant while I am not” thoughts. They are inescapable, as I’m sure you know! The choice we all have to make whether following blogs or participating in ALI message boards, or on Twitter or FB or whatever, is to keep those terrible thoughts to ourselves, because what purpose do they serve?
I have to remind myself of that constantly on my PCOS message board, because there are several women on there who already have one or more children, and write these long posts complaining about their infertility and all I want to do is shout about how “at least you have kids”–but I know that is stupid, and so I don’t. I wish everyone would contain themselves so well.
Anyway, keep writing, I worked through a lot of your archives on the old blog and followed you here. And those of us who understand that the Olympics are a completely worthless pursuit will continue to only share positive and loving vibes with you and B5!!
Thanks so much meg! For your honesty, your thoughtful comment, and for following along my story.
And yeah- totally get why you don’t read if blogs
Fat ladies unite!
Oh boy. Many people don’t think before they hit send on those kinds of comments. I hope she can come to terms with her situation and find resolution somehow. I am sure she is having a hard time, but she didn’t need to bring up the “at least you can get pregnant” thing. I hate that as well. Yes, I can get pregnant, but it’s not without a lot of strife and heartbreak. Thinking of you and Nadav. And of course B5.
::slow clap:: Mo, like I said last time, you are the freakin’ Chuck Norris of our world…. I adore you. 🙂
O.M.G. Regardless of ALI etiquette, that comment was just plain rude. Losing a child is terrifying to me. I can’t even imagine the pain you feel every single day remembering your son. I freaked out with my pregnancy because I had 1 confirmed and 2 suspected chemicals. I would lock my self up if I had experienced what you had. You are an amazingly strong woman. This woman apparently believes in the whole “it’s better to have loved and lost than to have never loved.” Like you said, oh yeah, try it….Wow… just …..wow…
Keeping you and Nadav and B5 in my thoughts and prayers, always!
I know you started this new space to free yourself from the ALI etiquette and “empty platitudes” and “I’m so sorry”s that go along with it. But, come on. You’ve just called out a person for going all Pain Olympics on you by throwing the exact same argument in her face. “My pain is worse than yours.” That’s the very definition of the Pain Olympics.
I truly am sorry for your many losses, especially Nadav, and I can’t imagine how hard it is for you to be pregnant now, knowing how all your other pregnancies have ended. Facing months of bed rest just to have a chance to meet B5 must be a daunting and depressing notion. And I can’t argue with you on the silliness of those fetus-as-fruit pregnancy updates.
I’ve been reading your blog(s) for well over a year and have cheered you on, cried with you, even gotten angry with you. I don’t have to have experienced what you’ve experienced to empathize with you. But, speaking as someone who has never been pregnant, whose only shot at it involves many thousands of dollars and an assload of hormones and invasive procedures, there’s plenty of pain to go along with that, too. It’s not the same as yours, but it is real. MMMP is obviously in pain, too, and while she didn’t express it appropriately, I don’t think this post is necessarily the best way to address that.
I’ve cheered you on in the past, but I have a hard time shouting “yay, Mo!” at this one.
Fair enough. I totally played pain Olympics in this post. That was part of the point I was trying to make. I’m also not trying to belittle anyone’s pain here, BUT. The woman belittled my grief, and the memory of my son. Too far.
Thanks for your honesty Daryl I truly appreciate it
No I totally disagree Daryl. She showed utter disregard for a grieving mother. I thought Mo was too nice in this instance.
I couldn’t agree more Daryl. Also, I realize MMMP didn’t leave the most empathetic response but I (think) I understand her message. The message was to be grateful that you are pregnant. There are so many women who will never have that opportunity. And it’s not the “pain olympics” or minimizing your losses in the past in any way. It’s simply- you have hope, MMMP doesn’t. Just as I’m almost positive you would think women thankful to not have experienced the losses you have, you could understand her wish for you to be more thankful for what you do have.
Sorry but that’s totally wrong. Being pregnant for me doesn’t involve hope. It involves sitting in a fetal position and shaking because I’m terrified.
And what exactly do I “have” in all this? 40 pounds gained from five first trimesters? The trauma of three first trimester losses? The suicidal thoughts that haunt me each day I miss my son? The endless amounts of hospital visits?
I think I am thankful for my family and my friends. I am not thankful for the shitload of trauma I have endured over the last 3 years.
I am respectfully pissed off at your assumptions and rather hurt by them. Again- walk a mile in my shoes!
What. The. Fuck? I personally cannot even BEGIN to imagine how terrifying being pregnant AFTER FOUR LOSSES would be. Be grateful? I’m sorry. Just…no. Go away, Jilly.
Jilly, how is losing a child less painful than being infertile? And even if one felt that way, why would anyone ever voice that awful accusation?
I guess by being bloggers, we put ourselves out there for the masses to unleash their comments on us — for good or for evil. I have read many blogs where I roll my eyes and think “I wish that’s all I had to deal with”. Like Mel said, that makes me human. But the difference is, my filter kicks in and I recognize that it wouldn’t be a purposeful comment to leave on that person’s blog — I simply stop reading.
I think our individual battles and pain are ours and they are the worst possible thing for us at that moment. I’ll read someone’s struggles as they detail their battle of 12 months and how they are on their second round of Clomid and all I can think is “I wish I was that fresh to pain and frustration of IF and loss”. But back then, when I was that person, that was the worst possible thing.
You said it somewhere that losing Nadav doesn’t hold a candle to any other experience this stupid IF hell has thrown at you, and I want to say that I completely agree. IF is fucking awful but I managed and found meaning and blah, blah, blah. Losing my daughter damaged me to the core in a very different way. And that’s my worst possible thing in this moment.
There are good ways and no so good ways to provide feedback on a blog post–whatever the topic is. Belittling the bloggers experience is not a good way. Nuff said.
Oh Mo, I love you!!!!
I don’t think there’s a worse thing that can happen to a person than losing a child. The scariest thing about having children is the thought of that loss. Not to rain on the infertility parade (I’ve been there, though not to the degree that MMMP has. Classy name, btw) but how can anyone even compare the two?? So yeah, fuck her and the prematurely aging horse she rode in on!
And I’d like to add one more thing. I’m not minimising miscarriages AT ALL… but what you had was not a miscarriage! Someone commented the other day about how people “don’t take OUR type of losses seriously,” referring to her 14 week miscarriage. I can’t imagine the pain that must have caused but it’s just not the same bloody thing! It’s not the same thing to be within a week of viability, to feel your child move. Just like a wouldn’t compare my biochemical pregnancies to a miscarriage at 14 weeks, I thought it was a BS move to lump the loss of a child to a miscarriage. I know I’m proliferating the aforementioned Olympics but I had to get that off my chest.
What. The fuck. Is wrong with people? I’m sorry, Mo. I’m glad you wrote this post. I can’t help but wonder if MMMP is a troll?
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I agree with all …WTF comments above….I can’t believe someone actually felt the need to send that. Like I’ve said before — I completely stand with you on the “I’m choosing not to constantly talk about and discussing infertility”…..but, what most people seem to forget is the fact that it doesn’t change how we feel. It doesn’t change our pain or the fact that we are still dealing with all of it daily. No matter what “it” is….each of us is dealing with something, and just because we’re not blogging about it, or constantly bringing it up to our friends, does not – in any way – mean that we are all of a sudden not affected.
I love that you’ve left all the ALI “etiquette” behind…this is not an IF blog, it’s your personal blog…. and you’ve been very upfront and honest about it. I really hate when people leave nasty comments on blogs —- just don’t read or follow blogs or bloggers you don’t like. There is no need to get nasty, especially on someone else’s personal blog/space.
xxxx
You go Mo!